AI's Impact on Demand Gen in 2024 Feat. Maggie Sirunyan | Ep 23

Ian Binek (00:01.66)
Maggie, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. How are you doing?

Maggie (00:06.829)
I'm doing well. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me in.

Ian Binek (00:11.582)
Pleasure's all mine. I'm really ecstatic, like we talked about just a second ago, I'm so excited to have a literal theme that we're talking about for the whole show and for our listeners so they know we're talking about AI and its impact on demand gen. Not just the digital marketing industry, which I think is what a lot of people talk about, it's what I've talked about with a lot of the guests. We're actually talking about specifically in the demand gen space. So think we have some really cool hot take.

topics to talk about, debated things, and I'm ready to dive in, Maggie, if you are.

Maggie (00:47.479)
I'm so ready too, big topic.

Ian Binek (00:49.876)
All right, awesome. So within the topic of AI and its impact on demand gen, the first thing I want to talk to you about and ask you about really is, how much are you using AI to write copy, craft landing pages for your org and where you're working? What does that process look like as the head of marketing?

Maggie (01:10.423)
Yeah, no, that's a great question. And I'll just give a little bit of background about me and like the resources that I work with now and worked with before. So I've never had like a big team. So AI is really huge for me because it helps, you know, like amplify what I can do and helps with scale a lot. So that being said, I use AI a lot in the

polishing or enhancing phase of my work. Like, let's just say I'm writing an outline and copy for a landing page. I'll always think of the idea myself. I like creating the idea or the concept and reverse engineering that from the goal of the landing page, right? Like, what campaign is this for? Like, how are people going to stumble upon this landing page? this like for through social? this for

like a landing page for search ads, like all of that is taken into account to craft the content and the outline and the author of the landing page. So I build the skeleton myself and then I'll like really try to get as like much content in terms of copy on the paper as possible without worrying too much about it being perfect. But then once it's there, now I can use an AI tool, whether it's, you know, like chat GBT or it's Jasper or

Ian Binek (02:33.662)
Yeah.

Maggie (02:35.491)
primarily or like whatever is the flavor of the day and get iterations of what I have on paper and try to work faster through those iterations before I get to like a final result that I'm happy with.

Ian Binek (02:53.332)
Interesting. I just want to stop you there real quick. Your take is very different than what most people I talk to is, is they actually use AI before they do anything else. Like maybe they have the strategy in mind first, right? But then they use AI to get the mockups and then they themselves would come back and adjust it. So it's interesting. mean, for you, maybe it makes sense, right? Like smaller marketing teams leading the team, like you have to put the strategy in.

Maggie (02:59.801)
Yes.

Ian Binek (03:22.708)
first and then give it as much context as possible. And then AI is sort of acting like your specialist in a sense or your manager in a sense to basically get it across the finish line or get it 90 % of the way there. And then you come back with the last 10 % is what I'm hearing.

Maggie (03:23.832)
Yeah.

Maggie (03:37.08)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. Exactly. And I had a sense that you might say that you hear the opposite scenario more often people like using AI for idea generation and helps with that, like, staring at the blank page problem that I mean, myself to like a lot of people experience whether in like creative fields or, or, or marketing. But yeah, as you mentioned, like, I'm owning the strategy. So I already

Ian Binek (04:00.179)
Yeah.

Maggie (04:08.419)
come to the task knowing what needs to be done. So maybe that's why it's easier for me to, you know, like build the foundation first and then use AI to iterate. I treat AI more of as a sidekick and like a personal assistant in that sense, as opposed to, I'm gonna trust it with like strategy and ideation and being creative. I actually don't think that's where...

the forte of AI right now, at least at this point in time in 2024 lies in, but we can chat about it later too.

Ian Binek (04:43.198)
Definitely. Yeah, I think that's gonna be, that's something I really wanna pick your brain about later is how it's going to impact things moving forward. Because I agree with you, right now, absolutely not. I don't think that AI has a good idea of what strategy even means and what it would be recommending to someone. AI is just regurgitated content. It's looking at this massive set of data and coming up with some sort of conclusion on like,

based off what you ask it for, it's just going to pull something from its repository. It's basically like searching in Google, but a little bit more personalized based off of your prompt. So it's nothing like crazy, right? But I think, let's talk about like its tactical use cases here real quick on the same question, like how is impacting, you know, how demand gen campaigns are operating. You know, in my experience, you're going to get the best performance from very personalized.

Maggie (05:21.259)
Exactly. Yeah.

Maggie (05:31.139)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Binek (05:42.214)
landing page experiences, especially addressing things in the buyer journey, like comparison pages, pricing pages, how it works pages, which traditionally speaking with bootstrapped companies or early stage marketing endeavors, they don't have the resources to make those pages. But now with AI, there's almost no excuse not to have these things. So what are your thoughts on that? Do you think that the software is in the AI that's out there now?

Maggie (06:00.174)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Binek (06:12.026)
enables companies to actually create those pages quickly and efficiently or do you still feel like we're far off?

Maggie (06:20.585)
think there are tools that are really, really useful. The good ones do fall on the more expensive side. Like one tool that I will highlight is Mutiny. Pretty sure you're familiar with them, but yeah, with them you have to already have like a certain amount of traffic, like consistent monthly traffic for them to even want to talk to you and implement the tool.

Ian Binek (06:31.444)
Okay. Yes.

Maggie (06:44.589)
with you, but for listeners who don't know what Mooginy is, it basically plugs into your website and it's an ABM tool. So you can create landing pages dynamically or personalize existing pages, even like your homepage, to specific market segments down to a point where you can like say your like Snowflake as the number one account.

on your ABM program and somebody from Snowflake lands on your homepage, it'll say like, hey, Snowflake, dynamically. And it does so with a pretty good accuracy. it's, I don't know, I really like the tool and their marketing too. But yeah, it's a good tool, it is expensive. for small teams who are really looking to scale or companies that don't have that required,

Ian Binek (07:20.361)
Yeah.

Maggie (07:42.169)
like it is somewhat an accessible tool right now and I'm sure there are similar tools out there for smaller businesses or at more affordable prices. dynamic personalization, I think, is getting to a pretty exciting point. And I guess more tactically speaking, one application of AI that I think

Ian Binek (07:45.723)
Mm

Maggie (08:11.583)
is pretty ripe and marketers should take advantage of is reformatting or repurposing content. going back to like a demand generation campaign and how can you make it like bigger, more impactful and expand its reach. Like there are several strategies that you can implement, but let's say you have one campaign where you have a central piece sort of.

type of content, maybe it's like a really great webinar where you were able to bring in like, influential speakers and like that's the theme for the quarter. Let's like, take this as a scenario and you build a like a long format article about it. And you have the webinar recording. Now you have like two pieces of content that you handmade. One's video, one's, let's say written.

Ian Binek (08:49.659)
Sure.

Maggie (09:06.281)
And you can now use AI to repurpose those tools. There are great tools that are able to like chop up video content that's actually filmed and recorded in landscape mode and repurpose it for socials. There's like a ton and they're pretty affordable. And some will even, you know, point at the best.

Ian Binek (09:21.071)
yeah.

Maggie (09:32.857)
timestamps for you based and say like, we think that like this specific clip will generate a lot of engagement maybe because like the person showed a lot of emotion or there was a lot of fluctuation in the audio track. So it sounds like something exciting was being discussed or maybe it's listening for the for the talk track and reading the transcripts and was able to determine that there's something insightful being said. I think in that

Ian Binek (09:34.383)
Yeah.

Ian Binek (09:55.58)
Yeah.

Maggie (10:01.247)
in that sense, like repurposing content and reformatting content quite literally. Using AI is like a pretty solid application use case of AI.

Ian Binek (10:10.676)
Yeah, I think to try to broaden everything that you just mentioned is that AI is being used to do a lot of the manual lower level labor that has traditionally been needed for the past five, 10 years. And now AI is coming in and saying, I can do this very quickly around the clock and you don't need to pay someone to do this anymore.

you can pay $50 a month for the software that will do it for you whenever you want. Like that's basically what I'm hearing, right?

Maggie (10:46.881)
Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I yeah, when it comes to working with existing material, it can make things very fast and very efficient.

Ian Binek (10:59.973)
So let's get into then like campaigns themselves. okay, like we talked AI can, you know, identify parts of a clip that they think is going to cause a lot of engagement or spur a lot of engagement on social media content. But what about like Google Ads campaigns or LinkedIn Ads campaigns or just any other social media campaign? Like, what do you...

What are you seeing in terms of how demand gen marketers are being impacted by AI or how they're using AI to improve their results? Do you have any anecdotes that you'd like to cite that how people are using it for their campaigns?

Maggie (11:45.131)
Yeah, I have a few anecdotes. I won't name names. I've heard a lot of stories from my peers of like, publishing pretty much entirely AI generated Google Ads campaigns and then performing very well, like for a very short brief period of time and then everything tanking and then having to like either pause or completely redo the, like the ad copy and the targeting and the

even the keywords that they're bidding on. So that's pretty interesting in my opinion. then, yeah, but like I've honestly, I've tried reading up on it. I wasn't able to find any like, conclusive evidence of it being a thing. So maybe these are isolated, isolated events. But the reality is that

Ian Binek (12:19.668)
That's fascinating, honestly, yeah.

Ian Binek (12:31.998)
Sure.

Maggie (12:40.857)
If you're say like using AI to build the campaign, like the structure or get ideas or get keyword lists or even down to the ad copy or using AI in your SEO, like research strategy, like at the end of the day, the end result, the campaign itself is the same. Like it looks and feels the same to the platform as if you did it all by hand. I don't believe there are like.

that Google has like tools that can say like, you use AI to generate this like ad copy. think the existing state of the art AI detection tools when it comes to texts are pretty, I don't know, like unreliable. So if it's, I don't think it's the AI that's causing anything to like go poorly or.

go well for your campaign. It's more about how you think about it and how you use the tools to get to the end result. And if you use AI to generate more ad variants that you want to experiment with, great. If it works for you, it works for you.

Ian Binek (13:32.692)
Sure.

Ian Binek (13:49.464)
Yeah, I mean even inside of Google Ads and even LinkedIn now, there's AI integrations. So it's like you get to the ad part and it's like, hey, let us just make this ad for you, which it's really, I would never recommend anyone to do that because usually it doesn't have all the context. Yes, it's scanning your homepage for that information and providing its sentiment on.

Maggie (14:01.175)
Yeah.

Ian Binek (14:15.792)
on what you're selling, but I don't think that it really gets the idea across in the ads. I think it's really fascinating because really what it sounds like behind everything you're mentioning here is strategy is the most important part. Crap in, crap out. So if you have AI make, if you make AI campaigns that you did AI to do your keyword research and AI to do all this other crap.

you're going to get crap results. But if you take the time, have thorough strategy, understand the whole buying journey and make sure you map that out, set it up correctly with a really good strategy, I think, I try to prove this point a lot, and I'm pushing this as sort of a hot take in my eyes, that I think you need the strategy to have amazing results, but you don't necessarily need someone to manage that.

can't paint anymore. think that we are trending in the direction where specialists and ad managers are sort of becoming obsolete. You already see it now with some of the no -code softwares that are out there, but with AI layered on top of it and its number crunching ability, you have it kind of on steroids now. like your software now has this...

Maggie (15:33.293)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Binek (15:40.212)
person always managing at 24 -7 and number crunching for you and then sending you feedback every day that you just need to say yes or no to. It takes you less than five minutes to do anything. But your accounts are now more optimized than if you had an actual human, like managing the accounts, Do you know what I'm saying there? Have you seen that at all in your orgs that you've worked with? Okay.

Maggie (15:54.369)
Yeah.

Maggie (16:02.497)
Yeah. No, I definitely, I definitely agree with that. And to go back to something you said earlier, I would never trust the built in AI feature inside of an advertising platform. Cause you always have to keep in mind the incentive of the vendor in this case, like if it's Google ads and it's suggesting like automated AI recommendations to optimize your campaigns. Like no, might want to

Ian Binek (16:15.197)
Yeah.

Ian Binek (16:28.232)
Yeah, yeah.

Maggie (16:30.873)
think twice before hitting that button. But, but yeah, to answer your question, one thing that AI is like great at is analyzing data or like reading, reading through text, reading through data, whether it's like numbers or words and summarizing it. So whether it's summarizing ad performance data, or it's summarizing an article for you, that's, I don't know, like 15 pages, that's what it's good at. So those are the type of tasks that I would actually trust.

AI with. And even those like giant advertising platforms right now have a lot of those like built in tools where you can perform intelligent lookups on specific metrics by just like typing out a sentence, you know, or like build dashboards, like AI suggested dashboards with like widgets, you know, and stuff like that and get some forecasts on your

Ian Binek (17:24.009)
Yeah.

Maggie (17:28.963)
performance, like all of that is great. Whether you're using the internal built -in tools or like third party vendors, like another trend that I see and lots of data analytics tools are just the AI powered chat overlay on top of the entire data layer of the tool, which is incredible. Then you're just able to, you know, ask your data questions and get

Ian Binek (17:45.544)
Mm -hmm.

Maggie (17:55.949)
simple results and answers in plain English. So I think those are actual like exciting use cases and things that we weren't able to do before as marketers.

Ian Binek (17:56.677)
Yeah.

Ian Binek (18:10.217)
I think there's a lot that could be said about the whole AI on top of a data layer providing your customer success role. I don't necessarily want to get into that too much, I think what generally we're trending towards is strategy is going to become the number one thing and then everything else is automated.

Maggie (18:34.413)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Binek (18:36.596)
To play devil's advocate a little bit. I want to understand your thoughts here of the people that are you everyone is exposed to AI but of the people that are in the demand gen team

Who do you think is most at risk of having their job automated in the next five to 10 years?

Maggie (18:57.889)
It's a tough question.

Ian Binek (19:04.372)
And there's no right answer, really.

Maggie (19:04.609)
It's it's it's yeah, no, there's no right answer. I honestly think we're a little about like, AI is not at a point yet where it can fully like automate a person. I see a lot of startups that are trying to push for like automated employees and like marketing and sales and those seem like like conceptual startups and like it's interesting, like looking at the way that the market is.

shifting right now, but to go back to the question, I think you were right that it might be that like campaign manager or the data analysts, but how I think this might actually manifest itself in the market is that the analyst will have just more responsibility over the campaign and won't their role won't be just the reporting of the data or

of like pulling the data that's needed or managing the campaigns day to day if it's a campaign manager, but also providing recommendations and taking more ownership over those campaigns. Maybe I guess what I'm trying to say is I think their, their responsibilities will broaden because they're

work can be done more efficiently and faster now with the right tools, right? But I think you still need that person in the driver's seat.

Ian Binek (20:32.596)
Sure.

Ian Binek (20:38.526)
That's fair. There's obviously how this impacts full -time employees and someone that's managing the thing. How do you think it impacts agencies? How do you think that someone that would normally be contracted out to do this kind of work, maybe the management work, right? How does that impact in the next five years? it's like the same activity, but nuanced in a different way. And I think that business owners will like...

Maggie (20:46.307)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Binek (21:04.71)
in my opinion view it as less valuable to work with like a consultant like that from like a management sense and more so like only in a strategy sense and then there's no need really to hire someone to do that. What are your thoughts?

Maggie (21:10.412)
Mm

Maggie (21:19.415)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good question too. I think we'll see a lot of competitive pricing within agencies, which always, you know, shifts the dynamics a lot. So you'll see more more net new agencies popping up, offering this like competitive pricing because they use so much automation and AI and are able to

Ian Binek (21:41.63)
Mm -hmm.

Maggie (21:49.877)
advertise themselves as a full stack, like digital marketing agency, but in reality, maybe it's like just two people and a bunch of AI tools. think it'll, well, I'm a little biased. don't think it'll be successful long -term. Maybe we'll see like a short -term spike. mean, we're already seeing a bunch of new agencies pop up that are full stack and serve everyone and don't have like a niche.

necessarily in the clients that they serve. So, I think we'll see more of that. I've also been noticing a new agency model mimicking SaaS, which is quite interesting. what I'm seeing there is them offering their AI tech stack on like a SaaS subscription basis. And you can like pick and choose what you want. And you get charged just like for software, but it's not.

Ian Binek (22:29.255)
Yeah.

Ian Binek (22:43.326)
Mm

Maggie (22:46.445)
but it's really you're paying for a small team of people that are managing that software for you. But yeah, that feels like a whole different thing. Honestly, I don't even think of it as a marketing agency. It's sort of like this interesting hybrid. There is something to it, right? Because we've never had this many tools at our disposal.

Ian Binek (22:52.926)
Yeah.

Ian Binek (23:03.699)
Yeah.

Maggie (23:12.515)
before as marketers and especially like AI powered tools that are able to like do a bunch of things and automate things. So as much as we're worried and talking today about AI replacing people, but who's supposed to like use and set up still like manage those tools that are supposed to automate a lot for you. So actually this like hybrid model of a SaaS and agency, coming together. Makes sense. Like I understand why we're

Ian Binek (23:27.509)
Yeah

Maggie (23:41.155)
agencies like this now, but I don't, again, I don't know if this is like a short -term or a long -term thing.

Ian Binek (23:47.636)
For sure. Yeah, I mean, I actually hadn't really thought of the whole agency enabled AI approach, but that makes a lot of sense. I might even consider it for myself. Not gonna lie, that's a really good idea. I've kind of preached the whole episode really is that I just really feel like agencies themselves and lower level skilled employees are

Maggie (23:59.481)
Hahaha

Ian Binek (24:17.652)
going to be, like my hot take is I just, don't think they're going to be around in like five years, five years. Like I think, I think now to a degree with, like I said, some of the no code and also with some of the hard coded things that people are putting together to a degree, I think that people can manage ad accounts without someone like behind it. Like you really can just have a digital marketing manager and they're in charge of.

the AI tool that does copy, the AI tool that does design, the AI tool that manages the campaigns. And then they just, you know, the tools get them 90 % of the way there. They finished the last 10 % with their time. And I think eventually you're going to get to the point where it's like, you really only need a CMO. And the CMO then works with all of these other like best in class AI tools that basically do everything that people used to do. I think...

The safest people in this scenario are just leadership, experienced people, they know strategies that work well, and they're staying cutting edge. Obviously you can't just rely on what worked 10 years ago, because it's going to change, but it kind of feels like that's the case. At least that's what I think. I think you have somewhat of a similar opinion, but I think it was a little bit rooted with the fact that someone still has to be there to drive.

Maggie (25:22.381)
Mm -hmm.

Maggie (25:36.969)
Yeah, yeah, someone definitely has to be here. Like what you just described, I think is a very like idealistic take on it, like AI. And if we have like the perfect AI tools, where like a CMO, like one person at a, I think that makeup today works for very small, like early stage companies. But if you're in like enterprise level or like a midsize company,

I think that's not sustainable and probably won't be for, I don't know, like a couple of years or a decade. I see the potential in AI, but I also see how it doesn't work in a lot of ways when it's supposed to work. So I'm a little skeptical, but the rate of innovation with AI is just so disproportional to anything else we've experienced before. So I'm sort of like biting my tongue as I'm speaking this out into existence, because yeah, it's...

Ian Binek (26:04.488)
Yeah.

Ian Binek (26:17.512)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ian Binek (26:28.628)
Sure.

Maggie (26:33.847)
the innovation cycle is just going too fast. Like, I don't know, maybe next year we'll solve all of the problems that we're having right now with the current tools, you know? So what do I know?

Ian Binek (26:41.716)
Yeah. That's hilarious. I couldn't help but think about the three body problem. you read the book or have you watched the show on Netflix? Well, it's basically this show that has to do with aliens and spoiler alert for anyone that hasn't watched it, you could skip 40 seconds ahead, but really what happens is that...

Maggie (26:53.919)
No, what is it?

Ian Binek (27:08.212)
The humans make contact with aliens. And it's like present day world, like in the 70s, 80s, they make contact with the aliens. you know, the aliens are so far away, light years away, that it's gonna take them like 400 years to come to Earth. But the humans are like, you should come and save us. Like, we need help. It's super weird. And there's a lot of convoluted stuff that happens in between, obviously. But there's a point where like the aliens are like, yeah, like we like the humans.

And then they realize, like maybe when they're like 100 or 50 years into their trek, they realize they're like, humans have like this insane innovation curve. they've, they learn so quickly and their technology adapts so fast that like it's dangerous for the aliens to make this like 400 year trek to earth because what, who they were talking to like 400 years ago or like, like present day.

they're going to be like massively different in 400 years, almost to the point where it's like, are they going to be safe? It could be dangerous. And so it's super like, just couldn't help but think about that whenever, whenever you're talking about like AI changing, like that's literally the same, in my opinion, it's the same situation. It's like AI literally might be so different next year.

Maggie (28:19.01)
Bye guys!

Ian Binek (28:26.654)
to point where it's like everything we just talked about like sounds so dumb. It's like, obviously AI is gonna do that. yeah. So I don't know, I just couldn't help but think about the sci -fi nerd in me was, that's what I was thinking about.

Maggie (28:31.907)
Yeah.

Maggie (28:37.817)
I mean, A, sounds like an awesome show. I'm definitely going to check it out. Sounds super interesting. yeah, B, I do relate. I think the aliens got it right. And I feel the same way about AI right now.

Ian Binek (28:41.948)
It's really good. Yeah.

Ian Binek (28:51.476)
That's so funny. Awesome. Maggie, did you have any questions for me about the man gen, AI, its impact? Everyone that listens to this, which is only 20 or 30 people a month anyway, so it's small, for at least for now, right? They know that I'm super in the weeds in Google Ads. I do Google Ads strategy. I make all these freaking crazy strategies that

Like I'm really bullish on the idea that like you have the, if you have a really good strategy and it's, set up correctly, then like the management helps, but it's not going to be like what makes or breaks the campaign. At the end of the day, it's the strategy, it's the message, it's the offer. so like for me, when I look at AI, I look at it like somewhat tactically too. And I know we talked about like the automation of tactical things, but I mean, if you had any questions in terms of, what are some of those things that.

that are getting automated and that you'd like to know about, especially as like a head of marketing, I'd love to answer those for you.

Maggie (29:57.773)
Yeah, no, thank you so much for the opportunity to ask questions. I guess my question would be like, has AI helped you in the testing phase or has it helped shorten the iteration loop for you with the various accounts that you manage?

Ian Binek (30:17.214)
Mmm.

Ian Binek (30:21.054)
It's a great question. There's only one thing that I use AI for in the A -B testing sense. I use AI a lot indirectly for A -B testing, to maybe set up a new landing page. I'll use AI to do that. But in terms of analyzing the test results, there's this tool that, quick side story, I worked in a venture studio and I helped co -found this tool.

called A .B. Wizard, which, shameless plug, but also I don't really work with it too much anymore. But I co -founded this tool, and essentially its job was to aggregate A .B. test data across all social media platforms and landing page platforms, which for the time, and honestly still to this day, there isn't a platform that does this really well. And it visualizes it in this expected return on investment standpoint. And there was an AI layer.

Maggie (30:53.897)
Ian Binek (31:18.63)
in two ways. One, it analyzed test results and that was number one, which was really cool because it gave you insights on the hardcore, on the data layer, which we kind of mentioned earlier. was like the AI is layered on the data. And then two, it recommended, strategically speaking, what you should test next, which is sort of like this survival of the fittest situation where A tests B and then whoever wins tests C, which

Maggie (31:28.899)
Mm

Ian Binek (31:47.718)
I thought it was so cool, right? Obviously, I don't think it fully got developed, but I still use the tool for my clients. that's how I use AI from a testing standpoint. Yeah.

Maggie (32:03.191)
Yeah, no, I love it. That's so great. I'm definitely going to check it out.

Ian Binek (32:07.09)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's abwizard .com if anyone's interested. Awesome. But I guess to answer the indirect question too of how I use AI indirectly, there's tools like Relume. I'm not sure if you've heard of Relume before, but it's a way for you to create landing pages and even website pages.

Maggie (32:13.655)
Love it.

Ian Binek (32:32.218)
really fast and uses no code plus AI. The AI kind of comes in with like the copy, which obviously if you give it a good enough prompt, the copy is going to be pretty refined. You should obviously go back through and like update it so it doesn't sound like AI. But I think what I mentioned like at the very beginning of the episode was, you know, there's really no reason not to have a comparison page anymore or a pricing page or even just like competitive alternative pages because you can use tools like Relume. And if you have like a web

Maggie (32:38.467)
Mm

Ian Binek (33:01.14)
like a Webflow as your site builder, it connects directly with it. So it can just like copy all the CS, yeah, copy the HTML and CSS, place it in Webflow and then like bam, you have a page like in 10 minutes. It's very fast. But that's, yeah. Yeah, I mean indirectly. And like I said before, I'm kind of stepping away from the implementation of things and more just like into that strategy role because...

Maggie (33:03.811)
Mm -hmm.

That was awesome.

Maggie (33:13.389)
Yeah.

I love it and it works pretty well for you.

Maggie (33:25.657)
Mm

Ian Binek (33:29.652)
Truthfully, I do think that's what moves the needle. But then too, I really think the industry is moving in that direction. Strategy is going to be the most important thing. Tactical execution and implementation is at the most risk of being automated and AI coming in and ruining those people's days, which is tough.

Maggie (33:49.911)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I like to look at it like with a positive bias and say like all these people that were like stuck in like monotonous work or like more implementation level work will have the ability to contribute on a more strategic level. I see it as a positive. If AI is here, I'd rather it automate

Ian Binek (34:03.348)
Yeah.

Maggie (34:18.649)
the tasks and work and implementation rather than creative or strategy. And I know it's been a hot topic, I guess in the pop culture too, like, why is AI painting pictures and writing songs and why not do the dirty work? I think at least in the B2B front, the way we marketers use AI, it is doing a lot of that implementation.

Ian Binek (34:35.302)
Yeah.

Maggie (34:47.959)
level of work and I do feel bullish about that specifically.

Ian Binek (34:53.524)
Yeah, I like the positive spin. I like to stay positive. Sometimes I go negative for the hot take and the engagement, but this time, generally, that's how I feel. But I think you're right. think you've got to stay positive. as long as those people that, like, let's just pretend that I'm right and that maybe these people are automated in the next five to 10 years. As long as the people that are, the roles that being automated, the roles that they look like today, if they're being automated.

As long as those people that are having their jobs kind of removed are learning and using AI to do the next best thing, then they'll always be a place for them. But I think it's the people that they're so upset that AI maybe automates part of their job and they feel less valuable and they don't learn the next thing, that that could be problematic for them if they're continuing to innovate at the human speed, I guess.

Maggie (35:46.456)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, no, I think that there's truth to that too. Like you have to be upskilling yourself as a marketer all the time, like AI or not, honestly, our jobs are very competitive and we do have to be growing and be on the cutting edge of, know, latest trends, tools, innovation, and now AI. So it's just like another thing we have to keep up with.

Ian Binek (36:01.397)
Yeah.

Ian Binek (36:12.966)
Absolutely. All right, thank you. Well, that is all I have for you today. Thank you so much for being on. It was a great conversation. I can't wait to publish this and see what people say.

Maggie (36:23.319)
Yeah, thanks so much, Ian. I really enjoyed our conversation. Happy to be a part of it.

Ian Binek (36:27.834)
Absolutely. Before we go, wanted to find out what's the best way for people to get in touch with you. If they're interested in adaptive or some of the work that you're doing, how can they get in touch with you the best way?

Maggie (36:41.497)
Sure, awesome. Yeah, well, you can find Adaptive at adaptive .build. So that's www .adaptive .build. And we're also on LinkedIn and all of social media platforms, Adaptive Build or Adaptive Build, depending on the platform. And for me, you can find me at Maggie Siranyan. I'm most active on LinkedIn, really not doing social media and URLs. So think LinkedIn is the best place to find me.

Ian Binek (37:12.102)
Yeah, clicks to that. like LinkedIn the most as well. So, Maggie, thank you so much. And yeah, we'll be in touch soon.

Maggie (37:16.377)
See ya.

Maggie (37:22.165)
Awesome, thanks so much, Ian

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